Metagame np: Stage 6: Begin Again

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asa

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PU Leader

DLC 2 is here, and with it came several, several late Christmas gifts from both OU and NU! Along with those Pokemon, we are also once again unbanning every PUBL member as stated here, which now excludes Duraludon and Indeedee since they rose.

Here's all of the Pokemon we gained, including PUBL unbans (there's a lot wow):

:abomasnow::alcremie::bellossom::braviary-hisui::bronzong::decidueye::dewgong::dipplin::dodrio::dudunsparce::electrode-hisui::emboar::exeggutor::frosmoth::glastrier::granbull::hariyama::hitmonchan::lanturn::lilligant::lycanroc::magmortar::magneton::malamar::meowstic::meowstic-f::mesprit::minun::mismagius::oricorio::oricorio-pau::oricorio-sensu::piloswine::plusle::primeape::qwilfish-hisui::regice::regirock::registeel::rotom-mow::sandaconda::sandslash-alola::sceptile::shaymin::shiftry::terrakion::toucannon::typhlosion::venomoth::vikavolt::vileplume::virizion::vivillon::wo-chien::zebstrika:

And here are the Pokemon we lost, including the ones that rose from PUBL:

:duraludon:(rose to NU):indeedee:(rose to UU):palossand::rhydon:(rose to NU)

There are a few Pokemon already on the council's radar, notably Terrakion, but there's also a lot of potential in what isn't immediately broken here. The plan is to take tiering action throughout the week in hopes of stabilizing the tier before circuit playoffs. There's also a good chance the council will vote on Terrakion later today, as its power level is ridiculous even compared to everything else we got + we lost possibly the only counter in Palossand.

With all that said, I'm looking forward to reading the discussion that follows; there's definitely a lot to talk about.​
 
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Well, might as well share it again.

:sm/shiftry:

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Ability: Wind Rider
Tera Type: Fighting/Poison
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Leaf Blade
- Knock Off
- Low Kick

When you set Tailwind you also get +1 to Attack at the same time, making it a pseudo Shift Gear that also benefits your team mates if you get forced out!

And just so it isn't all the same, let's have some more fun with setup

:sv/dodrio:

Dodrio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Early Bird
Tera Type: Ground/Fighting/Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Drill Run/Knock Off
- Double-Edge/Low Kick

Man, we actually have a bird that's both fast AND hits hard! You might not get the most opportunities to setup due to frailty but if you get an SD off it's gonna get real rough for your opponent.
 
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This is completely insane, there are so many stuffs I want to use I'd need to build but where to start? It's a whole new tier.

:regirock:

Regirock @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Fighting / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Body Press
- Stone Edge
- Rest

I don't know wether I'd run max Def or invest in SpD + Iron Defense, but Body Press from this thing must hit hard.

Also CB :emboar: is no-brain; click a move and kill
 
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/terrakion.png
BAN THIS RIGHT NOW!!!
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/wo-chien.png
How did this go down? Also I hate this thing.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/registeel.png
Yeah, this is busted.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/palossand.png
Why did we lose sand right when THE TERROR appeared.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/emboar.png
Jesus, this thing is gonna hit like a freight train.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/oricorio-sensu.png
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/venomoth.png
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/frosmoth.png
Quiver Dance go brrr (ban these things)
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/rhydon.png
NO WE LOST RHYDON
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/shaymin.png
Stats are great, Seed Flare is crazy and Healing Wish sounds insane on HO.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/vikavolt.png
Webs. In a meta with IronPress Registeel, Bulk Up Emboar and THE TERROR!
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/braviary-hisui.png
Tinted Lens, Esper Wing AND Calm Mind! Yeah pretty good.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/sceptile.png
GOTTA GO FAST!
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/rotom-mow.png
This is just weird.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/virizion.png
Verizon 5G seems like a slightly more fair version of THE TERROR.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/bronzong.png
This, Dipplin and Wo-Chien are the duct tape holding this tier together.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/dipplin.png
Thank Arceus this checks THE TERROR.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/regirock.png
Yeah, this isn't busted.
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/sandaconda.png
YES! WE NEEDED A NEW GROUND TYPE!
https://www.smogon.com/forums//media/minisprites/hariyama.png
This guy is very versatile. Bulk Up, Assault Vest, Guts and Belly Drum are all great sets. Once Emboar gets banned this will be insane.

This is just what I predict these mons to be like in PU.
 
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Bella

Lighterless
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Hello, its time for the longest post i've ever made in my life. So welcome to Bella's extremely extremely early PU meta thoughts on 54 different PU pokemon!!! I want to cry!
We will start off with all the Legendary Pokemon because why not:
:Terrakion:
I'm broken. This is def getting banned today or tomorrow, heck it might be banned before i finish this post. Anyways, SD and Scarf and Band are all probably really good sets and everything not named Plume drops to its STABs or Coverage.

:Virizion:
Probably Broken(?) Maybe a suspect down the line but its not as immediately an issue like Terrakion is. I think SD sets are probably the best with LO, and Stone Edge + stabs hits everything in the tier so...

:Registeel:
This is the thing im most worried about after Terrakion, to be honest. Its just so fat and can muscle through pretty much every mon in the tier. Both Resttalk Body Press shitter sets and support rocks sets look good.

:Wo-Chien:
This thing probably handedly makes stall good again, to be honest. Very fat, probably on the QB slate.

:Regirock:
This is probaby fine as it was last gen, happy to see it back. Having Tera is going to make it alot better imo.

:Regice:
Im not sure how well this is gonna be but Rock Polish sets seem interesting. Honestly probably not even our best ice type though.
It does not have Polish anymore lol. Boltbeam Twave sets seem fine i guess.

:glastrier:
It seems fine. SD sets under TR seems fine. thats all i have to say on it.

:Mesprit:
Seems balanced. Specs are fine, Rocks sets are also fine. Happy to see it back.

:Shaymin:
Seems cute and maybe broken, just kinda overshadowed by literally everything else.


and now for... literally everything else.

:Abomasnow:
He's back! Probably decent too, makes Sandslash A scary and now snow teams are probably ok

:Alcremie:
She's a fairy and we have like -1 fairies right now so can't be that bad. Probably better after all the quickbans

:Bellossom:
Outclassed by Lilligant.

:Braviary-Hisui:
Esper Wing + CM sets seem like a fun sweeper set. Defog too. It'll be interesting to see how it develops as the meta goes on.

:Bronzong:
Currently outclassed by Registeel but once its gone it'll be solid.

:Decidueye:
Defog sets seem good, SD sets seem good too. Probably our best defogger in the long term and im excited to see it used.

:Dewgong:
lol

:Dipplin:
It seems ok? Specs seems fun, but im not sure how it will compare against Arbolivia. Eviolite sets too seem fun....

:Dodrio:
Unfortunately bad i think, maybe Choice sets can work but no Jump Kick rly sucks for it.

:Dudunsparce:
Coil and CM sets both seem good. Glare sets aswell seem ok. Maybe broken in the long run.

:Electrode-Hisui:
He's finally here. Probably functions as just a better Electrode-K the same way Electrode-K worked in pre dlc.

:Emboar:
Broken. It clicks CC and Flare Blitz and everything drops.

:Exeggutor:
It does not seem that good. Maybe Specs or subseed sets can function? Tera also helps its awful typing, but we will have to see.

:Frosmoth:
Tera + QD + Ice Scales seems really really good. That's about it, just solid overall and idt itll be broken(?)

:Granbull:
Fairy n2 for the tier, and probably better than Alcremie. Intim sets could be nice.

:Hariyama:
Guts sets could be fine...? If you can't tell im running out of things to say about stuff here. Bulk Up thick fat sets could also be fine too.

:Hitmonchan:
Bad.

:Lanturn:
I can see some Bulky Pivot sets working. No more Heal Bell or Toxic really sucks for it though.

:Lilligant:
QD sets can just going to do the same thing as it always done. Probably not broken again but we will have to wait and see.

:Lycanroc:
Lead sets will be fine. CC sets also probably could be fine.

:Magmortar:
Niche wallbreaker with Specs. It does hit alot of stuff with its coverage though! Will be interesting since we don't have alot of other Fire-types who can do the same thing Magmortar can do atm.

:Magneton:
Scarf + Specs sets will just do what it did before. Probably fine in the long run i want to say.

:Malamar:
Superpower + Knock seems ok but it does not do anything after that. Probably not that good if i have to guess.

:Meowstic: :Meowstic-F:
I hate these two so much and with Marrill they are my least favorite Pokemon so im glad they are both shit.

:Plusle:
Bad, outclassed by Raichu-A.

:Mismagius:
Choice and Sub sets both seem decent. Quite strong and Quite fast, and it gets piled on to our 110 other Ghost-types.

:Oricorio-Pa :Oricorio-Sensu:
Both are maybe broken in the long run. QD sets are just QD sets, yknow?

:Piloswine:
Probably statchecked too hard now.

:Minun:
Bad, see Plusle thoughts.

:Rotom-Mow:
No more defog sucks but it still is a functioning Scarf mon. Plot sets are also probably fine.

:Sandaconda:
This is exciting imo. With both Palossand and Rhydon gone now this is the Ground-type for the tier. Glare seems stellar, and i could see people making Coil sets work too! Very happy to see this guy come down.

:Sandslash-Alola:
This and Abomasnow make Snow teams decent. Choice Band or SD sets under there could be pretty good. Rapid spin defensive sets outside of Snow also seem alright!

:Sceptile:
HO Machine w Indeedee and Thwacky. An Unburden mon has been needed for a long time and im glad we have one now. It'll be nice to have.

:shiftry:
Interesting mon. Tailwind + Wind Rider seems nice and it still can opt for stuff like Choice Scarf or LO too. Tera is also probably really stellar for it. Def something i need to try out.

:Toucannon:
Mixed sets probably could be decent but im not high on it. Outside of that it seems pretty bad.

:Typhlosion:
Choice Specs and Scarf + Eruption is the one thing it has going for it and tbf it does that well. Its bad outside of that.

:Venomoth:
QD sets are interesting and having Poison STAB and Powder gives it enough of a niche over Frosmoth. Once again, just another Strong QD user.

:Vikavolt:
Best sticky web mon now. Specs and HBD sets are also probably decent. Maybe offensive Pivot potential?

:Vileplume:
Probably our best Poison now. Extremely bulky and our best "check" to Virizon, Terrak, and others. It still has most of its tools from past generations, so im really happy to see it here and im ready to use it.

:Vivillon:
Do i even have to say anything? You get the drill, its a QD mon.

:Zebstrika:
ngl i have no idea why people were hyping this mon up, it sucks still.

At the end of the day, these shifts are extremely interesting and basically is another tier reset. It'll be interesting to see what goes down over the course of the week and to see what gets banned!
 
terrakion might dwarf everything in pu and be suspect worthy in nu, but at least its fun, oricorio just makes everything boring, it has little to no counterplay so in the late game where its checks are gone, its gg instantly
:Alcremie:
She's a fairy and we have like -1 fairies right now so can't be that bad. Probably better after all the quickbans
hey hey hey, let her return to zu next month so she can stop the golem spikes meta
 
2AADC656-6248-44DF-A416-DA74A6466CB5.pngobviously terrakion is super broken rn with it's oppressive warp on the meta game with the SD set, scarf, and band all being crazy threats being able to break through every one of its “checks” with raw power or tera but while he’s here it’ll be fun (he’s gone now oops)
3A496959-6850-4879-840E-B6347AB4EBCA.pngvirizion is really interesting with great speed and the ability to run either physical or special sets and it got the addition of vacuum wave which is really cool rn I don’t know if I think it’s broken rn but I’ll definitely be a threat with its set up options or maybe even choiced stuff
5EA366F3-520B-4401-8FC9-6D30B136B8AD.pngE8B0E8B7-A604-406F-893A-46A01C0D536C.png67CE7665-B549-44AE-B52F-D2A04C01D699.png
these three guys are super cool! I loved hail last gen and I still do love it but it’ll probably get better after bans. abomasnow might also be decent on HO as a screen setter and frosmoth has massive special bulk and quiver and it’s one of the better quiver dancers, but slow speed let’s it easily be revenged even after a quiver. a-slash has spin+rocks+spikes so outside of hail that’ll be cool.
658F85BD-370D-4B1E-97E8-697A7352679A.pngdoes normal wo-chien things walling a lot of the tier but it does feel like a tera sink. don’t let that trick you into thinking it’s bad because it’ll wall everything after tera
FB45F931-B0F9-49BE-903B-42BCF50C10BF.pngrock setter sets are cool+body press will probably be great when a certain regi leaves. tera helps him a lot. liking him so far.
F3A1ACAC-F408-4082-800E-65AC414FC49E.pngbolt-beam coverage is good. the typing is not. and it lost rock polish. probably decent but more of zu material
8F197261-4C2F-4AA6-82ED-EBE2D8B2F8B6.pngthis guy is wild. double dance iron press sets are wild. support sets are amazing. he statchecks so much. I don’t think he’ll stay.
E18F6ECE-73E2-4AB0-BE07-CA6FC2ADD84E.pngrn I am a little underwhelmed. but I think he’ll be really good later on, especially after terrakion leaves. his bulk+sd+tera makes him look very tempting
CE0EA64B-184B-461D-B029-9BA93A183B30.pngmesprit is back! np+support+scarf all look promising! definitely slept on currently it’s very good. not banworthy but good
2674B3AC-1CD1-4EC1-AEDD-E182062F7323.png8EF95E82-6C0E-4FB8-8CEA-63F5307D78B8.png2C73ED42-0DC0-4517-8E7E-0FAE907FEDDB.png44F5A8D0-E540-40B7-BE4D-186A193359D5.png837B7DCB-706A-4D2B-AE04-7A568DB2F53A.png164E92D2-0AB7-4AAE-AA4E-26EABDDDF577.pngwhy are these 6 together? all of them are bulky set up mons. dudun has cm+coil sets which are super good with tera poison/fairy/ghost. malamar superpower+sleep talk set looks decent havent seen it in action yet (tera stellar will be garbage on it because it’s typing is awful) bellossom+liligant are quiver dancers that will be used for the qd+synthesis qd+strength sap. liligant probably better tho. then haryiama is belly drum and bulk up super strong mon. lastly magmortar is belly drum+flame charge and then you have the boots breaker set too.
FBE64638-91D7-43CA-8ECF-40EB75765A2A.pnggood on balance and offense the scarf specs and boots sets will probably be good
F6AE1730-D55C-4EA7-890C-84621D84C065.png566B9B86-A1F4-4185-B6FA-C5F175F256B7.pngI hate that our fairies suck
C712D5A9-E5D8-4F85-AEFC-2AF62DF7830D.pnggreat mon fits in both balance, terrain, and offense with its calm mind set either with tinted lens or sheer force either way it’ll hit hard and leave huge holes in the opponents team! personal favorite in the tier
F4EE7FCE-6EB6-445F-9DE2-0EEE108F30ED.pngspeaking of terrain teams sd+tera flying sceptile is insane maybe even band worthy! outspeeds the opponents whole team and has a bulk boost from either one of the seeds and healing or protection from priority depending on the type of terrain. another one of my favorites!
41C7F310-14FA-42A8-8B88-492871C6DE34.png7F98CE76-FB1D-4F2E-AA3E-BE4FEA6ABBBB.pngD160F386-A320-427D-BBB4-DDCF7CE0F28B.pngthese three are some of the greatest defensive glue mons in the tier. dipplin has a dense move pool but great bulk and recovery. bronzong has great bulk and rocks+ iron press sets even if the iron press sets are currently outclassed. vileplume is amazing great typing and bulk only further complimented by sleep powder+strength sap and it’s good offensives
BB4233C5-FBF2-45E3-BFFB-44929D0DE548.pnghasn’t seen him once but I think he’ll be decent with both sd sets and Defog pivot sets
121641E5-213F-4639-99E7-2EB265E3FB45.pngthis guy is a threat in a half with band sets or bulk up sets. might be too much for the tier. flare blitz and cc destroy about everything.
621C6AAE-417B-4638-8428-FDB2AA63A02A.pngB9F72154-F722-47C7-AE34-B7BF585A09E6.pngtwo news grounds! both are pretty good and needed after loosing palo. sandaconda has decent recovery in shed skin+rest and good utility with sr and glare. piloswine does better against some of the electrics but he’s probably overall worse.
AF53DE0A-7342-4FB2-8932-725C40F15DAA.pngD14A2648-8561-474C-A681-787EE9E65A26.pngfast electric pivots not entirely estopped by the grounds without having to Tera. electrode-h has fast taunt and isn’t choiced locked. Rotom-mow is faster with scarf and it has cool utility moves.
35AF12DE-F977-4C23-A79D-E69AD73CECB0.pnggreat ho lead and maybe sand will pick up but for now it’s the best ho lead
32736EF8-58D3-47A8-AC98-C4B07E657890.png1EEADE1D-9B36-4275-A96D-90B27E2A553A.png957BF966-41E3-4462-8F28-0D7A8D73454B.pngoricorio looks good so far (not pau though) it’s an amazing quiver dancer. definitely be good in the tier. venomoth is really good on ho but it’s relegated to ho. and vivillion has no niche at all until venomoth leaves. he’ll be ok on ho if venomoth leaves though.
D0995852-C966-421E-8124-B2D7845D2B5E.pngwe’ve are actually good rn and vikavolt is a pretty good setter
40D91638-83F5-47D2-9877-80658CB2476B.pngsub+nasty plot and choiced sets seem really promising but haven’t seen her much in action
197EF826-7E0B-4BE1-8EF9-5DC21CBFF662.pngstrong eviolite pivot+ specs or scarf sets
9DD4F5A2-5252-4781-9F5F-1AD613845BEE.pngAEBB3785-B536-4DA4-B86F-A3AACAD6C51C.pngD980F2EF-0A4E-460B-A2F1-D61883649140.pngall three of these electric are terrible in current pu and outclassed by better electrics zebstrika has cool abilities and fire coverage but it doesn’t make up for everything else
B6997DA8-7EE1-4F45-81EF-4AF73C96C9DC.pngactually think it could be decent?? it still has scald and it got flip turn for pivoting plus a volt immunity
018A66F0-6D73-4B4B-AB16-1E89623DE7FE.pnglost jump kick but it’s fast and hits decently hard. idk how to feel about him
9F5CB427-B922-47DD-BDA6-98FDCA5AF6E6.pngperish trap shenanigans but it isn’t good
7EBDC919-0CF2-409A-A5A0-BCF88DCBC21D.pngdecent chlorophyll user but it’s not great with competition from victreebel and shiftry but maybe specs is ok?
699CE6FC-C7F3-4B7B-BEB5-FA8EB66A8272.pngdon’t use this we have other spinners. but then again spin+sd could be decent.

62EB5B5E-8D85-43C8-AAEF-02F094B4F41F.png916C53A2-023E-48FB-AC64-D717EB8A6370.pngoffensively outdone and screen sets are also outdone
40EA6B58-BA0A-43A2-AD0A-D0B4B705A52A.pngwind rider is cool+chlorophyll with vulpix and maybe just a breaker set could be ok?
2EC9E10B-430B-4371-ABD5-6ACD89986697.pngmixed sets are its best bet but ehhhh
570C2DB4-FFAA-4B02-A17A-6C748FAAAC9F.pngscarf and specs eruption! needs good hazard support and it hates priority
took a while but that’s my thoughts about all the stuff we got while I was writing it terrakion got banned rip have fun in nu
 
Fastest quickban in the west
Broken stuff:

:Oricorio-Sensu: :Oricorio: :Oricorio-Pau: :venomoth: :frosmoth: :lilligant: :vivillon: (:bellossom:)
Welcome to quiver dance hell. Ban sensu ban venomoth ban frosmoth and wait to see how the rest settle I think. I hate it but I think stuff like lilligant and the weaker oris are probably fine

:Hariyama:
Crabominable on steroids. Super fat hits like a truck.. yeah easy ban.

:shaymin:
seed flare is dumb, big stats.

:registeel: :wo-chien:
Admittedly likely less broken than the others but I still don’t trust them. They’re both just ungodly bulky. Registeel is a bit passive outside of ID + BP (which is kinda all it needs) and wo-chien is pretty Tera reliant and neither have reliable recovery but god these are both just unkillable. Definitely slate worthy I think.

I think :braviary-hisui: and :dudunsparce: are potentially problematic but need to prove themselves I think.

Cool mons:
Enough doomposting though because once the broken snare out the way we do have some legit cool mons to use.

:sandaconda:
FINALLY. Sandaconda is great, ground type, status absorber, rocker, para spreader, coil wincon, phys wall? Sucks to lose palo but this is a good replacement.

:decidueye:
You know how sd shadow sneak banette was almost real in like November? This is basically that but good. Also a cool defogger, despises wo chien but you can u turn on it at least and if that gets banned this is a great mon.

:bronzong:
Like registeel but not stupid. It’s cool to have a good spdf steel, got a lot of set variety with good utility options or set up. Knock weakness sucks but overall a cool mon and way more interesting than regifraud.

:sandslash-alola:
Not quite the sandslash we were hoping for but it'll do. Offers great role compression similar to what regular sandslash offered with rocks + spin + knock but with slightly better overall bulk and a different typing. Steel/ice has a bunch of great resists but the 4x fighting weakness (and to a lesser extent the 4x fire weakness) hold it back quite a bit. Still a solid mon, and with abomasnow back in the tier this can pop off on snow with sd and triple axel, and the snow boosting its defence to frankly absurd levels (tbh with glastrier and frosmoth in the tier as well snow seems kinda nuts).

:vileplume:
Amidst this offensive hell vileplume stands strong as an amazing glue mon. Strength sap is a frankly absurd move that pairs well with vileplumes great typing and good bulk to let it check a huge portion of the tier, most notably the fighting types. This + its good utility movepool and good special attack making it not too passive makes vileplume one of the best mons in the tier easily, and once everything settles I wouldn't be surprised to see this in S rank (although it likely just gets swiped by NU)

:alcremie: :granbull:
Fairies! Neither are that great, alcreamie lost mystical fire and granbull is granbull but given our terminal lack of faries they'll do just fine I think.

:lanturn:
Losing heal bell and toxic sucks, but what it didn't lose is scald, and thats huge. Lanturn is the only viable scald user in the tier atm and with its great typing makes for a super annoying pivot, although the lack of recovery still hurts it greatly.

There's so many mons in this tier now and I don't think I'll cover them all now, these are just the ones I that I really wanted to talk about but honestly once the bans go through I'm pretty excited for this tier.
Actually...

Gonna keep each description short because good god that is a lot of mons
:abomasnow:
Still decently scary offensively, snow seems pretty good.

:bellossom:
Strength sap + quiver dance is kinda cool but sadly its still bellossom at the end of the day.

:dewgong:
lol

:dipplin:
God this would have been so cool a few months back but now outside of being a super niche knock absorber it just lacks the movepool to really do much. Just use wo-chien.

:dodrio:
Lost jump kick but low kick is pretty much a straight improvement over that. Its fast and has a strong brave bird, seems pretty good to me.

:electrode-hisui:
Electrode that doesn't need tera to beat ground types? Yeah this seems like an amazing pivot and can kinda just replace running a scarfer if you want.

:emboar:
Hits absurdly hard and might be broken but I think long term this will prove to be fine.

:exeggutor:
Tera is cool for it but I think its a bit too tera reliant to work. Would rather just run arboliva 9 times out of 10.

:glastrier:
The 1v1 king. Hits like a truck and take hits super well but the lack of recovery horrible speed and reliance on tera to do more than just trade 1 for 1 makes it not broken I think, although idk it could just stat check everything like last time.

:hitmonchan:
It got swords dance which is cool, SD + Mach punch is cute. Could also make for a serviceable spinner I guess, or maybe just wait for hitmontop to drop.

:lycanroc:
Good HO lead, could make for a serviceable attacker with great speed + prio.

:magmortar:
Getting knock is great and lets it cripple its checks long term, pretty cool wallbreaker, although with emboar in the tier competition for fire type wallbreaker is stiff.

:magneton:
No way magneton is broken this time, the poor bulk without eviolite and mid speed tier holds it back too much now, its just solid. Also just run lanturn for it tbh.

:malamar:
Maybe in ZU.....

:meowstic: :meowstic-f:
Lmao

:mesprit:
Still super scary but more managable. CM sets are still super cheesy but rocks pivots are cute.

:plusle: :minun:


:mismagius:
This is flying under the radar I think but mismagius seems super solid, good speed tier good power with a great movepool. Basically a better haunter honestly, tera fairy NP draining kiss looks really fun.

:piloswine:
I'M SO GLAD ITS BACK. Amazing stab combo and good eviolite boosted bulk makes for a pretty cool ground type, although both bronzong and orthworm pose issues for it.

:primeape:
Might just be the insanity of the tier right now but primeape seems kinda eh? I'm sure bulk up rage fist will work out to be good and it has other sets (rocks pivot anyone?) but the stats seem pretty underwhelming without boosts and the eviolite boosted bulk isn't crazy or anything.

:qwilfish-hisui:
Amazing spiker and general defensive mon, skuntank has competition, although no knock sadly.

:regice:
Yeah, nah. Sorry.

:regirock:
Will probably be fine. ID + BP off 200 defence is funny and tera is nice.

:rotom-mow:
Unblockable volt switches whooo. Scarf seems great, nasty plot seems good, pretty much just take what frostom did pre dlc but without the rocks weakness (and a better defensive profile in general).

:sceptile:
Cool unburden sweeper but needing to run thwackey to support it limits it greatly.

:shiftry:
No more sun but self setting tailwind sets with wind rider seem kinda cute as like a budget shift gear. Also technically works as a defogger I guess,

:toucannon:
IDK boomburst is fun. Probably sucks though, and as long as dudunsparce is here uhh, just use that lol.

:typhlosion:
Eruption is a meme sorry, just use the other fires.

:vikavolt:
Losing roost sucks hard and means vikavolt can't as effectively use its honestly pretty good defensive typing. Still, can't write off the 145spa electric type with pretty much perfect coverage. Also webs, cool.

:virizion:
As opposed to SS its speed tier is now just pretty good as opposed to blazing fast, so its much more managable. That being said its still really good, its coverage is great and has a ton of strong set up options on top of naturally good bulk, even if its power before boosts is a little average. Great mon, probably not broken.

:zebstrika:
Honestly just use electrode. No not the hisui version, regular electrode. Yeah zebstrika sucks.
 
Fastest quickban in the west
Broken stuff:

:Oricorio-Sensu: :Oricorio: :Oricorio-Pau: :venomoth: :frosmoth: :lilligant: :vivillon: (:bellossom:)
Welcome to quiver dance hell. Ban sensu ban venomoth ban frosmoth and wait to see how the rest settle I think. I hate it but I think stuff like lilligant and the weaker oris are probably fine

:Hariyama:
Crabominable on steroids. Super fat hits like a truck.. yeah easy ban.

:shaymin:
seed flare is dumb, big stats.

:registeel: :wo-chien:
Admittedly likely less broken than the others but I still don’t trust them. They’re both just ungodly bulky. Registeel is a bit passive outside of ID + BP (which is kinda all it needs) and wo-chien is pretty Tera reliant and neither have reliable recovery but god these are both just unkillable. Definitely slate worthy I think.

I think :braviary-hisui: and :dudunsparce: are potentially problematic but need to prove themselves I think.

Cool mons:
Enough doomposting though because once the broken snare out the way we do have some legit cool mons to use.

:sandaconda:
FINALLY. Sandaconda is great, ground type, status absorber, rocker, para spreader, coil wincon, phys wall? Sucks to lose palo but this is a good replacement.

:decidueye:
You know how sd shadow sneak banette was almost real in like November? This is basically that but good. Also a cool defogger, despises wo chien but you can u turn on it at least and if that gets banned this is a great mon.

:bronzong:
Like registeel but not stupid. It’s cool to have a good spdf steel, got a lot of set variety with good utility options or set up. Knock weakness sucks but overall a cool mon and way more interesting than regifraud.

:sandslash-alola:
Not quite the sandslash we were hoping for but it'll do. Offers great role compression similar to what regular sandslash offered with rocks + spin + knock but with slightly better overall bulk and a different typing. Steel/ice has a bunch of great resists but the 4x fighting weakness (and to a lesser extent the 4x fire weakness) hold it back quite a bit. Still a solid mon, and with abomasnow back in the tier this can pop off on snow with sd and triple axel, and the snow boosting its defence to frankly absurd levels (tbh with glastrier and frosmoth in the tier as well snow seems kinda nuts).

:vileplume:
Amidst this offensive hell vileplume stands strong as an amazing glue mon. Strength sap is a frankly absurd move that pairs well with vileplumes great typing and good bulk to let it check a huge portion of the tier, most notably the fighting types. This + its good utility movepool and good special attack making it not too passive makes vileplume one of the best mons in the tier easily, and once everything settles I wouldn't be surprised to see this in S rank (although it likely just gets swiped by NU)

:alcremie: :granbull:
Fairies! Neither are that great, alcreamie lost mystical fire and granbull is granbull but given our terminal lack of faries they'll do just fine I think.

:lanturn:
Losing heal bell and toxic sucks, but what it didn't lose is scald, and thats huge. Lanturn is the only viable scald user in the tier atm and with its great typing makes for a super annoying pivot, although the lack of recovery still hurts it greatly.

There's so many mons in this tier now and I don't think I'll cover them all now, these are just the ones I that I really wanted to talk about but honestly once the bans go through I'm pretty excited for this tier.
Actually...

Gonna keep each description short because good god that is a lot of mons
:abomasnow:
Still decently scary offensively, snow seems pretty good.

:bellossom:
Strength sap + quiver dance is kinda cool but sadly its still bellossom at the end of the day.

:dewgong:
lol

:dipplin:
God this would have been so cool a few months back but now outside of being a super niche knock absorber it just lacks the movepool to really do much. Just use wo-chien.

:dodrio:
Lost jump kick but low kick is pretty much a straight improvement over that. Its fast and has a strong brave bird, seems pretty good to me.

:electrode-hisui:
Electrode that doesn't need tera to beat ground types? Yeah this seems like an amazing pivot and can kinda just replace running a scarfer if you want.

:emboar:
Hits absurdly hard and might be broken but I think long term this will prove to be fine.

:exeggutor:
Tera is cool for it but I think its a bit too tera reliant to work. Would rather just run arboliva 9 times out of 10.

:glastrier:
The 1v1 king. Hits like a truck and take hits super well but the lack of recovery horrible speed and reliance on tera to do more than just trade 1 for 1 makes it not broken I think, although idk it could just stat check everything like last time.

:hitmonchan:
It got swords dance which is cool, SD + Mach punch is cute. Could also make for a serviceable spinner I guess, or maybe just wait for hitmontop to drop.

:lycanroc:
Good HO lead, could make for a serviceable attacker with great speed + prio.

:magmortar:
Getting knock is great and lets it cripple its checks long term, pretty cool wallbreaker, although with emboar in the tier competition for fire type wallbreaker is stiff.

:magneton:
No way magneton is broken this time, the poor bulk without eviolite and mid speed tier holds it back too much now, its just solid. Also just run lanturn for it tbh.

:malamar:
Maybe in ZU.....

:meowstic: :meowstic-f:
Lmao

:mesprit:
Still super scary but more managable. CM sets are still super cheesy but rocks pivots are cute.

:plusle: :minun:


:mismagius:
This is flying under the radar I think but mismagius seems super solid, good speed tier good power with a great movepool. Basically a better haunter honestly, tera fairy NP draining kiss looks really fun.

:piloswine:
I'M SO GLAD ITS BACK. Amazing stab combo and good eviolite boosted bulk makes for a pretty cool ground type, although both bronzong and orthworm pose issues for it.

:primeape:
Might just be the insanity of the tier right now but primeape seems kinda eh? I'm sure bulk up rage fist will work out to be good and it has other sets (rocks pivot anyone?) but the stats seem pretty underwhelming without boosts and the eviolite boosted bulk isn't crazy or anything.

:qwilfish-hisui:
Amazing spiker and general defensive mon, skuntank has competition, although no knock sadly.

:regice:
Yeah, nah. Sorry.

:regirock:
Will probably be fine. ID + BP off 200 defence is funny and tera is nice.

:rotom-mow:
Unblockable volt switches whooo. Scarf seems great, nasty plot seems good, pretty much just take what frostom did pre dlc but without the rocks weakness (and a better defensive profile in general).

:sceptile:
Cool unburden sweeper but needing to run thwackey to support it limits it greatly.

:shiftry:
No more sun but self setting tailwind sets with wind rider seem kinda cute as like a budget shift gear. Also technically works as a defogger I guess,

:toucannon:
IDK boomburst is fun. Probably sucks though, and as long as dudunsparce is here uhh, just use that lol.

:typhlosion:
Eruption is a meme sorry, just use the other fires.

:vikavolt:
Losing roost sucks hard and means vikavolt can't as effectively use its honestly pretty good defensive typing. Still, can't write off the 145spa electric type with pretty much perfect coverage. Also webs, cool.

:virizion:
As opposed to SS its speed tier is now just pretty good as opposed to blazing fast, so its much more managable. That being said its still really good, its coverage is great and has a ton of strong set up options on top of naturally good bulk, even if its power before boosts is a little average. Great mon, probably not broken.

:zebstrika:
Honestly just use electrode. No not the hisui version, regular electrode. Yeah zebstrika sucks.
Nice and appreciated overview (I agree with lots of them)

But... but... Malamar :malamar: is definitely one of the scariest drops of this month: not necessarily because of Tera Stellar, but because its weaknesses can easily be turned into resistances with TeraPoison/Steel, which is helpful when you boost. Moreover, if you have Sub, Dipplin's Dragon Tail is laughable.

Speaking of Dipplin :dipplin: though: this mon's bulk cannot be ignored and I think it's still valuable in the current meta
 
Fastest quickban in the west
Broken stuff:

:Oricorio-Sensu: :Oricorio: :Oricorio-Pau: :venomoth: :frosmoth: :lilligant: :vivillon: (:bellossom:)
Welcome to quiver dance hell. Ban sensu ban venomoth ban frosmoth and wait to see how the rest settle I think. I hate it but I think stuff like lilligant and the weaker oris are probably fine
I completely agree that sensu and venomoth are probably too much for the tier(and maybe baile) but frostmoth is outsped by a lot even after the quiver and is very physically frail so I think it’ll definitely be manageable.
 

plznostep

Flittle Fanatic
is a Community Contributor
First Impressions
(on relevant mons)

:abomasnow:
Snow seems to be quite good. Abomasnow is our setter, quite bulky as always and gives Aurora Veil support. Overall good, offensive sets are probably not as good anymore though since the tier gained a sizeable amount of Ice-resists so the Ice typing offensively isn't as dominant anymore.

:alcremie:
It's a budget Florges. Probably decent, but we have actual Steel-types. I need to see it more to form an opinion.

:braviary-hisui:
Seems really good. Specs Tinted Lens is a good combo as always. Sheer Force + Life Orb Agility hits like an absolute truck. On terrain its also quite scary. Not too shabby at all.

:bronzong:
An actual Steel-type. Great defensive profile, will probably be very relevant for the tier in this month and possibly more.

:decidueye:
Another really good Pokemon, offensive potent and a great defensive typing allowing it to have plentiful opportunities to setup in this tier. Wonderful Addition.

:dipplin:
Stat wise it's supreme. Movepool wise its garbage. I'm not sure I like it, doesn't really have much utility to it but it's probably decent enough.

:dodrio:
Quite fast and potent offensively as well. Defensively quite frail but overall looks nice.

:dudunsparce:
I hate dudunsparce.

:electrode-hisui:

I would guess this will heavily change the speed dynamic of the tier. For example, outspeeding Scarf Passimian is valuable and will probably make that set of Passimian fall off.

:emboar:
What switches into this? I don't know. Scary, I don't know if it stays.

:exeggutor:
Cute movepool buffs, probably too much competition.

:Frosmoth:
Looks to be really good, Ice Scales + Tera good, Quiver Dance supreme.

:Glastrier:
Really, really good. Beats just about everything 1v1 and can be a nightmare for teams to deal with.

:hariyama:
Belly Drum is really strong, AV is equally quite strong and great defensive glue. Overall good addition, we'll see if it stays.

:hitmonchan:
Surprisingly probably the best hazard removal from first impressions. Knock Off was a really good buff for it and with AV its quite bulky too. Oh, and Swords Dance is a good buff as well. It's definitely not the shitmon it was in previous generations.

:lanturn:
An actual defensive Water-type. Seems excellent.

:Lilligant:
Doesn't look very good anymore.

:Lycanroc:
Great HO lead, not amazing outside of it.

:Magmortar:
Looks good on paper. We'll see how it turns out in practice.

:Magneton:
Lanturn possibly was the worst drop for this Pokemon, but outside of that MU difficult to switch into.

:Malamar:
Looks okay. Not the worst thing in the world.

:Mesprit:
Looks pretty good. Defensive has been nice for me, Offensively though there are way more Steel-types making it easier to answer.

:Mismagius:
Pretty great, not much else to say. It's Mismagius.

:Oricorio:
Looks a bit difficult to justify over the other Oricorio's, but if Sensu is banned, this is either really really good or banworthy.

:Oricorio-pa
Another PUBL that doesn't look good anymore.

:oricorio-sensu:
Looks broken. Would be surprised if it stays. Quiver Dance stays supreme.

:piloswine:
Looks good, Ground-type and difficult to switch into if you aren't Bronzong.

:primeape:
Looks okay. Nothing special, but as a scarfer might be better than Passimian due to better speed tier.

:qwilfish-hisui:
Looks good enough, nice typing, good moves which gives it things over Skuntank.

:regice:
Last meta would of been okay. I don't think so now though.

:Regirock:
Looks pretty good. Really good stats and not too bad into Oricorio's.

:Registeel:
Wonderful so far. Probably a top tier Pokemon with its utility and stats + typing.

:Rotom-mow:
Looks really good as a sidegrade to Electrode-Hisui. Better defensively and hits harder + Nasty Plot.

:Sandaconda:
Probably really good. Now the only ground with semi reliable recovery, Coil seems not amazing though.

:Sandslash-Alola:
Really good on Snow. Defines the archetype.

:Sceptile:
Okay, requires Terrain to be used. Otherwise not amazing.

:Shaymin:
Really good, will probably be common on HO as support and also fine outside of that as a scarfer.

:Shiftry:
Weather Rocks are unbanned iirc, which means Shiftry probably functions fine on Sun teams.

:Typhlosion:
EW...

:Venomoth:
Probably banworthy. Quiver Dance + Tinted Lens and Sleep Powder is nasty.

:Vileplume:
Looks really good and probably meta defining with the tools it has available.

:Virizion:
Really good also, quite diverse in what sets it can run with Calm Mind or Swords Dance as options.

:Vivillon:
Another PUBL which is again, probably not very good.

:Wo-Chien:
Looks good, love it versus Decidueye.



 

gum

for the better
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hi, very early meta thoughts

grasses are very, very good. kinda to the point where it makes building awkward; u don't really want to stack mons of the same type, but using an offensive grass like sceptile, shaymin, or virizion means u usually can't afford to use wo-chien, vileplume, and defog decidueye, which are all great options. out of all the grasses we currently have, sceptile and virizion stand out to me as potential issues. the former is just really, really fast and has the coverage for everything + tera, while the latter has a ton of great sets, all requiring different counterplay. wo-chien also looks like it might be too much, as it just sits there and doesn't really die. it doesn't feel as tera reliant as it did in tiers above, as grass / dark covers a surprising amount currently. but yeah, this isn't an issue i have with the tier really, our grasses are just extremely good and it always feels like you're missing out

sensu and maybe hrav + emboar are the only "obvious" brokens to me. the former is a pain to deal with because quiver dance, and we don't really have a way to beat it beyond just "hit it hard" in a tier where most of our hard hitters die to one of its move, or don't do enough. our walls on the other hand, with the exception of haze muk and cuno, don't even threaten it. those two are also not super splashable, and can lose to taunt variants. as for hrav, i've mainly used it on grassy terrain, but its combination of bulk + speed boosting move + tinted lens makes it super hard to stop in its track. i think this set being good on 1 fringe playstyle, and how vulnerable it is to trick, taunt, and encore might make it balanced, but it's not something i'm super keen on letting around the tier right before circuit playoffs. i've heard other sets like agility sflo are also stupid, but i haven't tried those out yet. as for emboar, cb kills everything but also itself in the process, while bulk up sets can trade with a lot of the tier and do very unfair stuff at times. scarf is good and balanced though, use it!

the other quiver dancers have all seemed underwhelming so far, but part of that is probably because sensu is still around. i haven't struggled with venomoth yet, but i think that if we end up banning sensu, it'll be pretty stupid. frosmoth is just really slow and extremely tera reliant, in a tier filled with priority moves that can punish that rather easily. baile is good, but its base typing is pretty bad if it wants to do defensive stuff, while pa'u is just a zu pokémon i think. baile is going to end up being better if we ban sensu though. lilligant and vivillon most likely aren't terrible, but like i don't even know why you'd bother with either in a metagame like this filled with better quiver dancers (with the main one having dancer)

our steels are pretty weird, in the sense that i kinda think snowslash is our best one. registeel losing toxic and stoss is rough, but it's still great with idpress, curse, and twave sets. as for bronzong, it's also a very good defensive option, but it feels way too passive at times. snowslash is nowhere as bulky as those two, but it offers a ton of role compression; it's a "bulky" steel with rapid spin, spikes, and knock off. this has made it pretty fun to use and i think ends up giving it an edge in a metagame where building isn't the easiest thing to do

obviously, all of these are very early thoughts. i might disagree with what i've written here tomorrow or by the time we vote, as there's still so much to explore in the builder. our priority right now is still to make sure the tier is in a healthy enough place by sunday, for circuit playoffs, so that'll mean some bans. i think this meta has a lot of potential, and i'm excited to see how it develops in the upcoming days / weeks!!
 
Hello! I wanted to spread the love of some of my favorite mons to spam on ladder! Please use them.

:Mesprit: I love Mystical Power. 70BP and 90 accuracy sucks, but I will take that at the cost of becoming a psychic-type steamroller. I do not think I can understate how good that move is. BoltBeam coverage is also nice, although it really wishes it had flamethrower to hit Registeel. Mesprit has a great support movepool too, most notably SR and Uturn, which can be ran alongside mystical power as solid role compression. Scarf is equally as viable, since Mesprit has the movepool and the speed to work with scarf against anything that doesn't run quiver dance. I really love how versatile Mesprit is.

:regirock: This thing is immortal. I have stared into the face of a floatzel and lived the wave crash, because Regirock is immortal on the physical side. It's a good rock-type rocker, has the luxury of Thunder Wave and rock coverage, gets body press, and outside of reliable recovery it has basically everything it needs. I do think it's better than Avalugg, but Regirock doesn't get recover or spin.

I also did want to talk about snow, since it was the only thing banned recently that kinda surprised me. And then I realized I have been running fire types and fighting types on almost every team and haven't explored the meta too much, thought some more, and realized that snow could be unhealthy, at least for now. I definitely feel like it should be looked at again eventually, but I also have the zero grasp on this meta so idk.

:magmortar: :charizard: :typhlosion: SPEAKING of fire, I think that fire type mons are good in this meta. It's good against the omnipresent grass type and brand new steel type. This is where I would highlight magmortar, charizard, and typhlosion, but I haven't used typhlosion yet so I have no idea how much scarf eruption would influence my opinions on the other 2. Also, charizard is better defensively into Registeel running fighting/steel coverage, so I've been using it the most.
:decidueye: I have no idea how to use this mon. I feel legally obligated to run defog + knock + uturn and being unable to choose between roost, STAB, and haze. If you find an extra moveslot with it you can have 16pp of recovery with roost/synthesis if you desire (you don't)
:dachsbun: ive seen it more than once lately which is more than i've seen it in the past 3 months, so massive W for dachsbun
:poliwrath: Still good.
:mismagius: This mon needs the damage boost from specs. I've failed to kill mons that I should have been able to pick off with scarf two times too many (one was a tera fighting beartic that had lowered defenses from cc iirc, the other was a registeel that lived mystical fire)
:eelektross: Still good too. I've been running coil with supercell/liquidation/lunge, which I chose to bop wo chien and other grasses while still hitting dark types. It helps in coil wars too, although i miss the drain punch recovery a bit
:magneton: :granbull: not too good. I keep forgetting magneton only learns normal, electric, and steel moves, which isn't enough in this meta. Granbull reminds me of Beartic, so yeah.
:vikavolt: simultaneously terrible and terrific. It needs energy ball + smth electric + bug buzz, with bug being good offensively in this meta (by meta I mean wo chien). Somehow both bulky and frail. Don't run both agility and webs.
 
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Can I have your opinions on these sets?



Eelektross @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Coil
- Supercell Slam
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off / Liquidation

It finally has a good Electric STAB which pairs well with Coil but I doubt it will be enough.




Mesprit @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Tera Type: Fairy / Electric
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Mystical Power / Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Draining Kiss / Ice Beam

I used this set before it got banned in PU. Electric + Levitate is fine with Mesprit's bulk but Fairy gives you STABd Draining Kiss for longevity and can absorb Knock Off / Sucker Punch / U-Turn etc.




Regice @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Thunder Wave

216 Spe is enough to outspeed Sandaconda and lot of stuff after T-Wave. Actually I don't know if Regice should run Spe and how much, perhaps Max HP/SpA is better.




Sceptile @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Endure
- Leaf Blade
- Acrobatics
- Drain Punch / Earthquake

Being a Grass type means it has lot of weaknesses so this is the plan: Endure + Unburden/Weakness Policy. Grass/Flying/Fighting or Ground cover a lot of things. STAB Acro hurts a lot after the boost. This strategy is cheesy yet funny.
 

plznostep

Flittle Fanatic
is a Community Contributor
Sun in PU

Heya PU. I've been having fun spamming a certain archetype in this meta that in my personal opinion is quite underrated by the player base in Sun!
(aka i am indoctrinating you into using the playstyle but you don't know that)
edit: also thank you to the PMD Sprite Repository for the cute sprites


Our Drought User

vulpix time.png


Vulpix is not a good Pokemon but it's what we have and so we will work with it. Drought on its own is so good it is worth the team slot to run Vulpix on your team and effectively be 6v5. And additionally, if Vulpix can outspeed something, it can actually either Encore them or Healing Wish to a teammate which is better than nothing.

Main Abusers

charizard time.png


Solar Power Charizard is impossible to switch into unless you have a immunity to Fire-type moves, and even then you must watch out for it's Flying-type moves that are also likely to OHKO you. Access to Solar Beam also means that it has amazing coverage on top of that, not that it needs it when you can click Weather Ball and demolish the entire tier.

victreebel time.png


Victreebel is one of the main Chlorophyll user to use. Its access to Weather Ball gives Victreebel a way to beat Steel-types without the use of Terastallization and while this is not unique to Victreebel as a Chlorophyll user, it stands out from them thanks to either its better typing or speed in Liligant and Vileplume's case. Growth also allows Victreebel to set up and Sludge Wave gives Victreebel a way of hitting Fire- and Dragon-types neutrally that may wall it otherwise.

shiftry time.png


Shiftry has a pretty nice offensive typing in Grass/Dark and amazing STAB moves in Solar Blade and Knock Off making it standout as a physical Chlorophyll user in the tier. It additionally can go mixed with access to Weather Ball as well and Growth which means that even when uninvested, Shiftry will hit decently hard with it.

exeggutor time.png


Exeggutor has another good offensive typing for the tier in Grass/Psychic and it's special attack is the highest of all the Chlorophyll users available. Combine that with Psyshock as a way to hit specially defensive walls and ideally a Tera that will allow it to hit Fire-types and Exeggutor is by far the best Chlorophyll user at breaking. However, it has one flaw. Base 55 may be enough to outspeed some scarfers, but it can miss out on Pokemon like Scarf Mismagius for instance which is a bit brutal for it.

leafeon time.png
sawsbuck.png


There are some other mentions like Leafeon and Sawsbuck that can probably work on the playstyle as well but I personally haven't found much success with them. Maybe you can make them work though haha :)
Support

hattrem we love.png


Magic Bounce is a valuable asset to Sun teams as Charizard, one of the main abusers on the playstyle, is 4x weak to rocks but wants to run items other than Heavy-Duty Boots. However, Sun is a heavily offensive playstyle and cannot afford to fit the usual hazard control options. This gives Hattrem a niche on the playstyle to keep hazards off for your abusers and can also be used as an Eject Button pivot which is also quite important to get your breakers in.

lycanroc time.png
froslass time x2.png

(froslass is such a diva i love her)
Hazard leads can be quite nice for Sun just to give the playstyle some more ways of whittling down checks and these two can also keep off hazards fairly well with Taunt. Other than that, they aren't that important and are usually the last slot in a team to think about. Alternatives can include just running some kind of bulky wincon that wins in the late game for you.

Try it out!

:froslass: :vulpix: :hattrem: :shiftry: :victreebel: :charizard:

Here is the team I have been spamming a lot of ladder. I would suggest building your own Sun team but if your a bit stuck on where to go, trying out the playstyle first can be advantageous to get a feel for what the playstyle generally wants.​
 
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Sun in PU

Heya PU. I've been having fun spamming a certain archetype in this meta that in my personal opinion is quite underrated by the player base in Sun!
(aka i am indoctrinating you into using the playstyle but you don't know that)

Our Drought User

View attachment 588995

Vulpix is not a good Pokemon but it's what we have and so we will work with it. Drought on its own is so good it is worth the team slot to run Vulpix on your team and effectively be 6v5. And additionally, if Vulpix can outspeed something, it can actually either Encore them or Healing Wish to a teammate which is better than nothing.

Main Abusers

View attachment 588996

Solar Power Charizard is impossible to switch into unless you have a immunity to Fire-type moves, and even then you must watch out for it's Flying-type moves that are also likely to OHKO you. Access to Solar Beam also means that it has amazing coverage on top of that, not that it needs it when you can click Weather Ball and demolish the entire tier.

View attachment 588997

Victreebel is one of the main Chlorophyll user to use. Its access to Weather Ball gives Victreebel a way to beat Steel-types without the use of Terastallization and while this is not unique to Victreebel as a Chlorophyll user, it stands out from them thanks to either its better typing or speed in Liligant and Vileplume's case. Growth also allows Victreebel to set up and Sludge Wave gives Victreebel a way of hitting Fire- and Dragon-types neutrally that may wall it otherwise.

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Shiftry has a pretty nice offensive typing in Grass/Dark and amazing STAB moves in Solar Blade and Knock Off making it standout as a physical Chlorophyll user in the tier. It additionally can go mixed with access to Weather Ball as well and Growth which means that even when uninvested, Shiftry will hit decently hard with it.

View attachment 588999

Exeggutor has another good offensive typing for the tier in Grass/Psychic and it's special attack is the highest of all the Chlorophyll users available. Combine that with Psyshock as a way to hit specially defensive walls and ideally a Tera that will allow it to hit Fire-types and Exeggutor is by far the best Chlorophyll user at breaking. However, it has one flaw. Base 55 may be enough to outspeed some scarfers, but it can miss out on Pokemon like Scarf Mismagius for instance which is a bit brutal for it.

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There are some other mentions like Leafeon and Sawsbuck that can probably work on the playstyle as well but I personally haven't found much success with them. Maybe you can make them work though haha :)
Support

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Magic Bounce is a valuable asset to Sun teams as Charizard, one of the main abusers on the playstyle, is 4x weak to rocks but wants to run items other than Heavy-Duty Boots. However, Sun is a heavily offensive playstyle and cannot afford to fit the usual hazard control options. This gives Hattrem a niche on the playstyle to keep hazards off for your abusers and can also be used as an Eject Button pivot which is also quite important to get your breakers in.

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(froslass is such a diva i love her)
Hazard leads can be quite nice for Sun just to give the playstyle some more ways of whittling down checks and these two can also keep off hazards fairly well with Taunt. Other than that, they aren't that important and are usually the last slot in a team to think about. Alternatives can include just running some kind of bulky wincon that wins in the late game for you.

Try it out!

:froslass: :vulpix: :hattrem: :shiftry: :victreebel: :charizard:

Here is the team I have been spamming a lot of ladder. I would suggest building your own Sun team but if your a bit stuck on where to go, trying out the playstyle first can be advantageous to get a feel for what the playstyle generally wants.​
sniped this from you after you crushed me multiple times in lobby tournaments—super fun team! I ended up swapping Shiftry for Scarf Embaor (when it was legal) because tera fire FB in sun steamrolled even the bulkiest resists after spike chip
 
Just a funny Alcremie set I cooked up

Alcremie (Alcremie-Rainbow-Swirl) @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
Tera Type: Fairy/Steel/Ground/Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acid Armor
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss/Tera Blast
- Stored Power

Just a Alcremie set for PU that I cooked up in 5 minutes, with Aroma Veil to stop Encore and Taunt, the two main ways of preventing sweep of this thing set up, I know Mold Breaker exists, but who the fuck is using Mold Breaker Taunt Basculin? Oh yeah, and nothing understands the term "safe switch-in" after an Acid Armor and a Calm Mind besides Registeel (which needs to be banned btw), and Bronzong (which qua resists Stored Power and normal resists the very funny Draining Kiss). Tera Blast and Leftovers for Tera Ground/Fire, with HDB and Draining Kiss for every other Tera Type. And don't waste your time on Sweet Veil. Only stops I have found are Wo-Chien and Bronzong when running Tera Blast Ground, Bronzong when your not running Tera Blast Fire, Registeel with Tera Fairy/Steel sets, though it has a hord time threatening you when your Tera Steel'd, and Probopass if you aren't running Tera Blast Ground.
 
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avarice

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Hi, I've been enjoying the current meta and wanted to highlight some of the cool offense teams brought in the circuit playoffs so far. It's no surprise that Wo-Chien, Hariyama, Dudunspace, etc. have become common bulky foes on standard bulky offense/balance builds especially when considering how well these Pokemon usually perform against cheese builds. However, it's nice seeing different "cheese" team archetypes succeed while not seeming too overwhelming as a whole.

Grassy Terrain - Dodrio was an interesting pick for midgame breaking while making some use of the seed with Acrobatics. I think Tera Fairy is always going to be used for the stronger Draining Kiss on Mesprit so the Dragon Tail from MZ was a bit ambitious, it could've been closer otherwise.

Sun - I liked the Hisuian Qwilfish glue from Tanish here a lot. Destiny Bond, Spikes, and Eject Button all were rather valuable. Strength Sap from Vileplume was very neat as well and stopped Hariyama from owning hard after sugar ovens got extra mileage out of Charizard.

Hyper Offense - Glastrier putting in work is super cool and has nice synergy with the potential Trick Room on Farigiraf as well. Definitely have the most room for exploration with "standard" hazard lead HO.

With all the different possible playstyles this tier should be p heat (until shifts in Feb lol). I used this team against tlenit for ptpl if anyone wants to try another bulky offense. The idea was wearing down fatter teams with Knock Off and owning most HOs with OTR Farigiraf + Scarf Rotom. In general, I think Farigiraf shouldn't have fallen off as much as it seems to have after shifts. I am interested in how many more diverse builds show up in the circuit playoffs since it'll remain in this current meta. l8r
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click image for paste
 
Hello its me, the person who posts on the PU forums once a month. Disappeared from disinterest and health issues, but hey, i'm here again.

hariyama.gif
1706205573101.png


fuck it we ball (Hariyama) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Drain Punch
- Bulldoze
- Knock Off

wasnt this in nu? (Qwilfish-Hisui) @ Eviolite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Poison Jab
- Crunch
- Spikes
- Taunt

I like this core a lot. Thanks UberSkitty for informing me on Hariyama's existence!

AV Hariyama is an extremely solid AV tank that fits perfectly on my current team, which means Houndstone can swap to Lefties and Roar which is really, REALLY nice. Dual STAB and Knock is really obvious, but Bulldoze is a safe button to press vs. Rocky Helmet users, and especially every Morpeko, to give mons like Specs Mowtom or SD Sandslash-Alola safer entry, and I never would up clicking Heavy Slam or Ice Punch in the few games I had them in. Bullet Punch is probably better, but I'm fond of funny move options. I use Tera Elec because it gives you an auto win vs. Charizard and makes you less afraid of a pre-Tera'd Oricorio.

Qwilfish is really nice in general, but I really like its pairing with beefcake Hariyama since it forces you to switch out. I ripped it 1 for 1 from my NU team, so it's not perfect, but max speed is great, and max atk means anything coming in expecting a passive wall gets bonked. Taunt is good for pretty much every situation, and Spikes are the blood of my team. Having more spinners isn't fun, but Qwil isn't too worried about most of them.

And, of course...

houndstone.gif


omniscient wall (Houndstone) @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Roar

I'm convinced that Houndstone is still in contention for one of the best glue mons in the tier. With solid matchups into a LOT of the staple mons right now - it beats the best spinners, sits on Hariyama for free, and most special mons really don't like eating a max invested Poltergeist - and access to utility to cripple offensive answers like Will-o and, to me most importantly, Roar. Freeing Houndstone from the confines of Assault Vest has made me appreciate it for what it is: the funniest mon in the universe at not caring about your offense.

Tera Dark, imo, still remains the most valuable tera type, letting you stuff Rotom, Mismagius, opposing Houndstone, and Morpeko safely, while still taking neutral damage from most Fighting types thanks to Fluffy. I think Tera Fire + Fire Fang stocks might be even higher than before, too, since Charizard, Virizion, Wo-Chien, and Sceptile are around

image-2.png - 2024-01-25T141507.061.png
 
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